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Here is an india-focused example hosted by Japanese broadcasters- do you know any other broadcaaters who are helping citiznens to understand the choices they need to be informed on if next decade is to be ebst of times and not the worst

 From India Economics summit oct 3-4

MAAS= Mobility As A Service : cities can now offer mobility without the need to own cars-



Discussion between

director of uber india,  Pradeep Parameswaran
Amish Shah director Mahindra ,

founder of barefoot college : Maegan Fallone

 nhkworld anchor Minori Takao


Video opens with nhk anchor: Minori Takao driving through new Delhi in India- a country with 1.3 billion to  challenges  include : maintaining order, pollution.


 president of conglomerate Mahindra I am concerned with perils of winner take all model

barefoof college can a mobility revolution be the ultimate tool in unlocking social mobility


Takao Ley concept of MAAS involves integrating various ways to make access to mobility easier for a consumer – is this really a revolution that will benefit all or not?

Anish Shah Mahindra head of strategy conglomerate in 22 industries- we feel maas is here to stay

Revolutionise transportation in many ways great because it allows us to get ahead of things- and define industries so from car standpoint our industry is going to change-looking at a major transformation that is going to happen – for us this is an exciting time


Meagan Fallone: Founder Barefoot College Intl (India based entrepreneur active 96 countries education vocational skills):

It’s the concept with a platform like MAAS that is workable for everybody – you completely unlock peoples ability to attain their own aspirations to move from here to there because that is where  the job is that they want, or that’s where the family member is they want to support or that’s where a child needs to go to school – ultimate tool unlocking social and economic mobility for those who are currently disproportionately disadvantaged by not having access to good transportation


Pradeep Parameswaran Uber India

We had chance to spend time with principal scientific adviser to the gov of India- - he said entrance exams to most coveted engineering institutes in India substantially underrepresent women -because women don’t just show up to coaching classes the way men do - eg  most of the classes are in  the evening and in most cities  families don’t want to let young women out because they don’t trust trap sortation systems are safe enough. he was making social mobility point – here’s a prime commercial location in India- less that 1 in 5 people here is a woman -this sort of divide is increasing in developing world and transport has a very very important role to drive inclusivity in our society


What is MAAS?

Combines different means of transport that don’t involve privately owned vehicles-

Trains, buses together with car and bicycle sharing services will be used to help reduce congestion and air pollution – take out your smart phone input your destination and car will come and pick up or if there’s congestion you might choose a kick scooter instead- self driving minibuses may also add mobility for elders-  apps for easy payment – eg this Finland phone app gives you multiple options and immediate payment solution

So is mobility really sustainable and inclusive for all members of society?

Anash coming from car manufacture we would look at different modules

1 tech enabling this

2 ride sharing -can be 4 wheelers with other modes for last mile

3 electric- technically maas could be done without this but if cities are to go cleaner we need it

4 ergonomics

-          We can debate timeframes , and who will have to adjust


Takao: Megane, coming from ngo world how do you define sustainable mobility?


It’s not just how we get around – message sending to people about how important their aspirations are and how we are going to enable their aspiration

-          So mobility is concern to me because conversation on mobility is about equality/inequality – whether that is digital divide or education and opportunity divide


Pradeeep (Uber) Frankly cities are dying – I would argue maas is a social requirement – of course its a business opportunity – uber conceived out of idea of creating mobility as a service- frankly society needs to solve challenge to make cities livable – these are the statistics

30 million passenger vehicles in India – on average with 1.1 passenger in it

And eg average speed in bangalore has gone from 14 km/hour (not great) to 9 km/hour

I have 2 kids 10 and 7 both asthmatic growing up in New Delhi- I am sure we all agree need to play big part to change that for next generations


MAAS without private cars?

New Delhi ranks among top 5 cities in world for worst traffic congestion and air pollution

Huge influx of peoples into urban

UN estimates 70% population will be urban in 2050-if more urban residents own cars then congestion becomes worse paralyzing important city services and uinfsrtructure


Anchor Minoro Takao: what do we mean in saying that replacing personal cars can lead to  a better service?


Pradeep Uber: to be a better service/experience

Its easy to say we want to replace private ownership but frankly with what. I suggest 3 criteria

1 its reliable – its available when you want it – all the time for every citizen

2 it needs to be affordable-it’s a social good its no different from each of food, electricity housing-transport is a basic social need

3 it’s got to be sustainable – ie it must play its part in reducing pollution and decongesting cities

-all of these 3 things have to be provided- which means Its not only one mode of transport. and public transit will need to be a big part of whatever you think about -last mile connectivity is a big part of the solution

So if you pull these things together you can probably design an ecosystem which is affordable reliable and sustainable


Takao -but doesn’t uber rely on cars and personal devices?

Pradeep this is an important question

We are starting to integrate public transport into our system – Denver is one our test cities for this like the Finland app you showed us

India is a great example- our fastest growing service is 2-wheelers and 3-wheellers most of which is last mile connectivity

Pretty much every electric vehicle which is viable in India today is already on our platform on a test basis – so we are investing to learn how to make this work- so for us uber is not only a car service but it is a transportation service


Takao to Anish : coming from a car company  maas seems to contradict with personal car ownership – for a car manufacturer how does this play?


We look at where this industry will be in terms of objects of mobility and objects (of I would say people that want something that is beyond their regular mobility) of “desire”

Those objects will continue over time – question how do you supply both- how do you get into different forms of the maas system – because the exciting part is while all the challenges exist the demand is here today

 Its about figuring out the supply – the question is who’s going to be a winner in that space isn’t know yet-

uber has great lead on it today but eg google might overtake-uber in a future- eg today I look at google map in some cities (eg NY) to see my journey so they may start integrating transpiration in maps- -there are going to be multiple players and the ecosystem will be upended

-and if you consider eg look at electric cars , components requited are fraction of what’s been needed previously -the entire component industry will change

Takao- do you think other companies relying on oil driven vehicles  see the revolution in the way of you have just described

Anish I would say everyone does- if you look at auto companies round the world they are investigating  different components of maas and consolidation/alliances are takin g pace – so auto industry is shaping up for it


Takao to Meagan : if what we have talked about is a shared view that could be positive sign but what do you see as the challenges and mindsets of people who use the transportation

I think we have an utterly different issue ahead of us and its urgent

Its issue of aspiration

The places in the world where we most need to address the mobility issue are the spaces in the world where owing a car is still an aspiration -and it is seen as sign of success financially and in other ways – largely because its been linked to mobility – until we start to shift our aspirational mentality to one that is aligned with one that the planet can support -we are going to continue to circle around this problem

The cities that i see such as Nairobi Dar-es-Salam Cape Town Johannesburg Lagos Jakarta – if you spend one day in these cities you will see are running out of time

Second issue – about the tech- you just showed a beautiful app- but if you cant read and write you cannot use this app- in the cities I have mentioned a third of the people can’t read and write-so this is a networked and connected problem that touches on many different things so we have to come together to co-design from point of beneficiary users so we will need to take a systems change approach to a system and network problem – I dont think we are approaching this issue in the right way unless we can go beyond the view that one company/one platform can develop a one size solution that fits all


Uber Yes it’s a system problem too large for any one company- on aspirational  issue I am optimistic – millennials have moved on from needing to own an asset


Amish – let me share millennials ad – video man offers lady a ring /hook up for 12 months – she looks displeased – he responses for 6 months she gives him huge hug:  caption – afraid of commitment get contract to zoom cars for 6 months


Takao -is there a risk of creating future divides among people- obviously maas is framed around urban challenges, what about the rural area?


Meagan – yes coming from rural framework which I work on – it never works to take an urban solution and plonk in rural area – the needs are different – also rural people often don’t want to migrate to city – rural people would stay in rural areas if the way of life was enabled, if villages were strong and self-sufficient – if we reinvented in rural areas to the extent we do in cities – eg in some ways I can see electric being adopted faster in rural areas- rural people really resonate with environment and with efficiency, cost not spending on things they don’t need to spend on


Takao—how’s this different for women

Meagan-clearly women have a huge challenge in public transport in dev world (security, culture) we have amazing org in Delhi called women on wheels- it trains women drivers who then drive only women and families which has opened up opportunity of mobility -  there’s also issue of inclusion of systems with physically challenged is another opportunity – we have chance to send a message about ways of building infrastructure

Anish-inclusiveness is very important aspect – that’s where integration with public transport is core as is ensuring the last mile integration with rickshaws etc

Uber these possibilities have only emerged in last few years of scaling – we have launched an uber motor bike service- one in 4 users are women – many say is safer because a motor bike unlike a car is open –

Then there’s a company coming in usa – digitally empowered school transport, its not an uber company but it uses the uber algorithm platform



Example Finland’s whim app makes going to places easier than ever

Commentator – competition to develop platforms is intenseThose making inroads into maas are business including us software developers like uber google and china’s didiAutomakers joijng race aswell

 In japan Toyota motor and softbank have established joint venture by integrating auto and ai tech they aim to develop a next gen glopal mobility platform

Elsewhere govs taking lead include -finland leader upgrading city transport- public sector takes charge of urban planning while the private sector leads the mobility services


Pradeep uber – not clear to us that govs are best operators of systems- this that’s a stance across multiple industries not just transport- gov of india is saying we dont want to be the operator- priate sector has tole to play within a regulatory framework

Anish – when it comes to smart cities – how do you see i? ’I see this a s collaborative partnership among multiple ;private players-look at maas -today its a collection of various things that exist in some form when eg someone goes to a train station – maas is about simplifying easier – I don t see someone coming over to takeover the entire space- infrastructure is important - private company cant do all od that , difficult for gov to run the tech that is where private is coning

Takao  what’s the balance in collaboration with gov whether national or regional?

Meagan we work in comprehensive model with gov- landscape changed lot in last 5 years – gov has a lot in terms of data , tech ways of communicating getting people to comply- I see gov much more willing to apply in partnerships - - we all need to be advocates to push for that -it never works to go somewhere without gov

Uber gov has a very positive role: in policy making – know we are in such early stage in transformation of this multi trillion dollar sector that is used by every human on earth- transport is a service like that – be very careful to create enough of regulatory sandbox to allow tech and innovators to play out-the biggest risk is stifling innovation often well intentioned but without understanding second and 3rd order effects-of those decisions – as long as it protects interests of consumer and is for good of society I think these governing principles need to be in place but must give enough space to innovate


Nav- there are 3 important things for gov to focus on

1 standards – especially large space and number of players – electric charging standards are an example-if you ate going to have different players putting in different tech it wont work

2 addressing perils of winner takes all model – not just affordability but also economic sustainability problem- winner takes all sometimes has companies subsidising  today to reap profits in future- gov needs to ensure that affordability is maintained at sustainable level not changed when monopoly is in place

3 data privacy- this model has peril of data potentially being misused


Uber – I want to develop idea of data – take london transport for example -It allows data publicly used- there are 8000 developers that use the data for various sources of public good-public transport planning, urban planning where do you build roads, bridges.. it’s a big deal to see how data used in many countries because infrastructure is expensive and data must not be flowing just one way – how do you do it for anyone to innovate with enough rules


Takao when is it safe to share data?

Commentator – london case: from 2007 london made data available- companies can access customer data on  passenger  cards and hook up to live images of traffic cameras- for growth hungry companies this kind of big data is a treasure trove the risk is movements of individuals could be leaked to third parties.


In china it rapidly become part of everyday life- security cameras everywhere – gov controls personal movement data on grounds of maintaining security – is there a way to protect our privacy when data is collected to improve our mobility


Takao- I  know there are safety issues  – for the end user we need to feel safe when we uses these systems

Uber – I think you will see language from companies that hold the data for gov to play more active role- need safeguards – this is a topic expect tremendous movement in near future

Example we have something called uber movement – a data platform where data is aggregated- forms are shared with gov agencies specifically to improve urban planning – I would argue that any entity sitting on that high value data should be used for as much public good as you can

Nav - ,london great example it is aggregate data that is shared –

Meagan I think its clear gov needs to rethink its role into this new tech enabled and AI-enabled world- it might have been as a provider and as an operator – clearly that is not now the right space for gov to be operating in -the entire tech revolution has accelerated the need for innovation I  a fluid and an ongoing way – so it is clear that gov cant move at that rate- are they prepared to truly make that kind of step so they begin to act as a ;policy framework and protection framework- it’s the gov’s responsibility to protect citizens and their rights- well that gets a little dicey when gov is using AI and using our data for their own needs and wants -this is where the community needs to say you dint have the right to use my data that way-I am happy to have a service enabled but I am not happy to have my behavior predicted and suddenly the gov determining what I can and cannot have as an access- which is where we could go if AI starts to predict our movements then we will not have access to the kinds of moblity we want because the gov will tell us we don’t need that – this is very difficult space – the only way it is resolved if each of the partners in mobility stands strong with the end users welfare



Takao how can we help people want green solution

Anish we have to make solutions simpler -eg if you have a brand new metro in delhi that is quicker people will take it provided you also think what happens at last mile at each end

So far we have only talked about passenger transport but we need to think about goods transport too-we have large number of trucks that go from point to point but come back empty- to go greener we address that problem of goods mobility


Meagan: I am a pessimist – I think until we have carbon tax -until it hits bottom line, until cities are not able to borrow money at concessional rates for building of infrastructure without moving  to a more sustainable mobility system, I think we are just not going to get the speed or the uptake

I deeply believe the market innovates- I think we need to set the bar higher- about putting out there where we want to be by 2030, or 2040 and saying we innovate to that goal- the problem we continue to set the bar too low and then we don’t get very far –

Anish I am an optimist -electric rickshaws are taking over -starting to see affordability for fleets

Uber the consumer adoption we have seen to consumer adaptation to sharing makes me quite optimistic


more g,lobal insights from japan broadcasting 



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